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	<title>Comments on: PEAR vs. Zend Framework</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/</link>
	<description>Dedicated to teaching web designers PHP.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Stefan Mischook</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76300</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan Mischook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76300</guid>
		<description>Lothar,

I would agree, technically speaking, PEAR is not a framework. But this is what the PEAR people say on the home page of their web site:

'PEAR is a framework and distribution system for reusable PHP components. You can find help using PEAR packages in the online manual and the FAQ.'

Anyway, that is an argument of semantics and nerd-details .. not the point of my article.

I also agree that RubyGems is cool. 

All that said, I think that PHP is a number one web application development language when all things are considered. Yes, Ruby is a cleaner looking language and ColdFusion is easier to learn. But again, PHP overall has the most to offer IMHO.

Want to see good OO PHP projects? Check out:

Zend Framework
Wordpress
PHP Cake

... and there are more. There are also nice procedural based PHP projects:

- Drupal
- Punbb

So yes, PHP has a legacy to contend with. But the new breed of PHP projects and programmers are good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lothar,</p>
<p>I would agree, technically speaking, PEAR is not a framework. But this is what the PEAR people say on the home page of their web site:</p>
<p>&#8216;PEAR is a framework and distribution system for reusable PHP components. You can find help using PEAR packages in the online manual and the FAQ.&#8217;</p>
<p>Anyway, that is an argument of semantics and nerd-details .. not the point of my article.</p>
<p>I also agree that RubyGems is cool. </p>
<p>All that said, I think that PHP is a number one web application development language when all things are considered. Yes, Ruby is a cleaner looking language and ColdFusion is easier to learn. But again, PHP overall has the most to offer IMHO.</p>
<p>Want to see good OO PHP projects? Check out:</p>
<p>Zend Framework<br />
Wordpress<br />
PHP Cake</p>
<p>&#8230; and there are more. There are also nice procedural based PHP projects:</p>
<p>- Drupal<br />
- Punbb</p>
<p>So yes, PHP has a legacy to contend with. But the new breed of PHP projects and programmers are good.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lothar</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76299</link>
		<dc:creator>Lothar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76299</guid>
		<description>I come across PEAR now for the first time. And i'm surprised by this discussion because i had a total different understanding of PEAR the 
"PHP Extension and Application Repository" which has nothing to do with a framework other then that it may contain a few frameworks.

Looking at it like RubyGems, CPAN or Python Eggs. 

So i do not understand this discussion. 

My first impression about PEAR is unfortunately that it is very broken and unprofessional (well like 95% of PHP). Documentation is bad and the installation on windows is in just one word insane - and there i don't mean faulty but from a damaged brain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I come across PEAR now for the first time. And i&#8217;m surprised by this discussion because i had a total different understanding of PEAR the<br />
&#8220;PHP Extension and Application Repository&#8221; which has nothing to do with a framework other then that it may contain a few frameworks.</p>
<p>Looking at it like RubyGems, CPAN or Python Eggs. </p>
<p>So i do not understand this discussion. </p>
<p>My first impression about PEAR is unfortunately that it is very broken and unprofessional (well like 95% of PHP). Documentation is bad and the installation on windows is in just one word insane - and there i don&#8217;t mean faulty but from a damaged brain.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: PEAR vs. Zend Framework</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76287</link>
		<dc:creator>PEAR vs. Zend Framework</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 19:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76287</guid>
		<description>[...] More: continued here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More: continued here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76255</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel O'Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76255</guid>
		<description>I have to say, I've dabbled with both PEAR and Zend Framework (albeit in the early days, leaving just prior to 1.0).

I didn't find a compelling reason to switch to Zend Framework. Infact, as an early consumer of Zend via the PEAR channel; then having it go away all of a sudden, I was quite a bit disgruntled.

I also found the CLA (http://framework.zend.com/framework_cla_1.0.pdf) a bit of an affront - why do I need this when I have BSD style licences? Why do I have to fax it in?
I know the answers to these questions, but I don't agree with or like them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say, I&#8217;ve dabbled with both PEAR and Zend Framework (albeit in the early days, leaving just prior to 1.0).</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t find a compelling reason to switch to Zend Framework. Infact, as an early consumer of Zend via the PEAR channel; then having it go away all of a sudden, I was quite a bit disgruntled.</p>
<p>I also found the CLA (http://framework.zend.com/framework_cla_1.0.pdf) a bit of an affront - why do I need this when I have BSD style licences? Why do I have to fax it in?<br />
I know the answers to these questions, but I don&#8217;t agree with or like them.</p>
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		<title>By: PHP Weekly Reader - May 16th 2008 : phpaddiction</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76254</link>
		<dc:creator>PHP Weekly Reader - May 16th 2008 : phpaddiction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 05:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76254</guid>
		<description>[...] My favorite Zend Framework related article this week was Pear Vs. Zend Framework I don't agree with everything in th article but I do think the Zend Framework was misnamed it should have been Zend Repository. Actually I find some good in both , I just don't think inclusion in either is automatic commendation from the best practices gods. The comments on this article  How Zend Framework is Losing the wrong war leaves me wondering even more is it a framework or not? It kinda sorta is but not. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My favorite Zend Framework related article this week was Pear Vs. Zend Framework I don&#8217;t agree with everything in th article but I do think the Zend Framework was misnamed it should have been Zend Repository. Actually I find some good in both , I just don&#8217;t think inclusion in either is automatic commendation from the best practices gods. The comments on this article  How Zend Framework is Losing the wrong war leaves me wondering even more is it a framework or not? It kinda sorta is but not. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Lebensold</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76250</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Lebensold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76250</guid>
		<description>Mohammad,
I don't think a replacement for PEAR will come anytime soon, however HTML_QuickForm is a dying project. According to their own PEAR site, HTML_QuickForm has now been superseded by HTML_QuickForm2 and they've gone from 6 maintainers to 2. Matthew's Zend_Form contribution, while young, has a lot of demand and the Jira tracker is buzzing with comments and improvements. While I've developed applications using HTML_QuickForm in the past, personally, I wouldn't bet my next client's money on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mohammad,<br />
I don&#8217;t think a replacement for PEAR will come anytime soon, however HTML_QuickForm is a dying project. According to their own PEAR site, HTML_QuickForm has now been superseded by HTML_QuickForm2 and they&#8217;ve gone from 6 maintainers to 2. Matthew&#8217;s Zend_Form contribution, while young, has a lot of demand and the Jira tracker is buzzing with comments and improvements. While I&#8217;ve developed applications using HTML_QuickForm in the past, personally, I wouldn&#8217;t bet my next client&#8217;s money on it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: &#187; News Updates Flusensieb</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76248</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; News Updates Flusensieb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76248</guid>
		<description>[...] PEAR vs. Zend Framework [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] PEAR vs. Zend Framework [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mohammad Elkersh</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76247</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohammad Elkersh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76247</guid>
		<description>I do not think that PEAR can be replaced.
for example
the package HTML_QuickForm is the best ever package for building forms and i do not know any comparable package (Except Symfony Form Helper which is bundled with symfony)

If you campare it to zend_form you will find that zend_form is still in the very early stage 

I think that when i start using ZF i will only use the MVC functionality (Zend DB, Zend_View, Zend_Controller)
and use pear for every thing else</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not think that PEAR can be replaced.<br />
for example<br />
the package HTML_QuickForm is the best ever package for building forms and i do not know any comparable package (Except Symfony Form Helper which is bundled with symfony)</p>
<p>If you campare it to zend_form you will find that zend_form is still in the very early stage </p>
<p>I think that when i start using ZF i will only use the MVC functionality (Zend DB, Zend_View, Zend_Controller)<br />
and use pear for every thing else</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jon Lebensold</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76241</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Lebensold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76241</guid>
		<description>One of the big things I love about ZF is that I can use Zend_View without pulling in Zend_Db or Zend_Controller.. this has saved me when trying to extract an alternate view of an application, or simply rendering my pages as static content from a command-line php application. 

PEAR has a lot of momentum, however I think a lot of the weaknesses come from a lack of understanding from web hosts. I know that most PHP developers started their development from the incredible wealth of comments and samples on the php.net site for each method. I love being able to do an "I'm Feeling Lucky" search with 'substr_replace php net' and get over 100 different samples on how to apply substring replace plus derivatives using regex and a 2 year history of practical examples. 

PEAR has none of this and I think it leaves a lot of developers a little wanting. It's interesting to look at the history of the Zend Framework and how during the RC days, it had a similar model, where you would load in the Zend.php file and it was an aggregate root into the Zend Framework. It's really nice to see that the Zend Framework architects moved away from this model. Regardless, I'd still like to see further decoupling for things like Zend_Layout and Zend_View (I know there's a strong Smarty community out there). While Zend_Db is miles ahead of doing straight SQL through a $db object, I still would like to see Hibernate (a Java persistence layer) fully integrated into a Zend frontend, and sufficient community / documentation to support this kind of integration.

PEAR always seemed to me to be a one-size-fits-all solution, with projects gaining steam and then fading for months at a time (PEAR's server-side form implementation comes to mind...)

j</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the big things I love about ZF is that I can use Zend_View without pulling in Zend_Db or Zend_Controller.. this has saved me when trying to extract an alternate view of an application, or simply rendering my pages as static content from a command-line php application. </p>
<p>PEAR has a lot of momentum, however I think a lot of the weaknesses come from a lack of understanding from web hosts. I know that most PHP developers started their development from the incredible wealth of comments and samples on the php.net site for each method. I love being able to do an &#8220;I&#8217;m Feeling Lucky&#8221; search with &#8217;substr_replace php net&#8217; and get over 100 different samples on how to apply substring replace plus derivatives using regex and a 2 year history of practical examples. </p>
<p>PEAR has none of this and I think it leaves a lot of developers a little wanting. It&#8217;s interesting to look at the history of the Zend Framework and how during the RC days, it had a similar model, where you would load in the Zend.php file and it was an aggregate root into the Zend Framework. It&#8217;s really nice to see that the Zend Framework architects moved away from this model. Regardless, I&#8217;d still like to see further decoupling for things like Zend_Layout and Zend_View (I know there&#8217;s a strong Smarty community out there). While Zend_Db is miles ahead of doing straight SQL through a $db object, I still would like to see Hibernate (a Java persistence layer) fully integrated into a Zend frontend, and sufficient community / documentation to support this kind of integration.</p>
<p>PEAR always seemed to me to be a one-size-fits-all solution, with projects gaining steam and then fading for months at a time (PEAR&#8217;s server-side form implementation comes to mind&#8230;)</p>
<p>j</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan Mischook</title>
		<link>http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76239</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan Mischook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killerphp.com/articles/pear-vs-zend-framework/#comment-76239</guid>
		<description>Hi,

"Ultimately, a few extra MB's on a hard drive is not a big deal for most developers/sys admins."

I would agree with that entirely. Disk space is cheap ...

My liking the decoupled nature of the Zend Framework (a great design decision IMHO) has nothing to do with disk space, but rather with being locked into a bunch of stuff I don't want to use. 

Other frameworks I've used in the past, forced you to eat the whole meal ... sometimes its' cool to be able to grab what you want (and leaving the rest) at the buffet table.

Stef</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>&#8220;Ultimately, a few extra MB&#8217;s on a hard drive is not a big deal for most developers/sys admins.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would agree with that entirely. Disk space is cheap &#8230;</p>
<p>My liking the decoupled nature of the Zend Framework (a great design decision IMHO) has nothing to do with disk space, but rather with being locked into a bunch of stuff I don&#8217;t want to use. </p>
<p>Other frameworks I&#8217;ve used in the past, forced you to eat the whole meal &#8230; sometimes its&#8217; cool to be able to grab what you want (and leaving the rest) at the buffet table.</p>
<p>Stef</p>
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